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Multimedia 

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Cato Weekly Podcast • September 9, 2025 

# Cato Cage Match: Monetary vs. Fiscal Policy 

Norbert Michel and Dominik Lett square off over whether fiscal or monetary policy is the bigger mess. Lett highlights how entitlement programs like Social Security and Medicare are driving unsustainable debt levels, while Michel explains how post-2008 Federal Reserve changes have created risks of “fiscal dominance,” where monetary policy is increasingly shaped by government borrowing needs. Both stress that without structural reforms and political restraint, the U.S. faces uncertain and potentially catastrophic economic consequences.

#### Show Notes 

[![Monetary Policy](/sites/cato.org/files/styles/content_teaser/public/2024-12/monetary-policy%20Cropped.jpg?itok=5ejMtTwT)](https://www.cato.org/policy-analysis/comprehensive-evaluation-policy-rate-feedback-rules) 

Study 

### [A Comprehensive Evaluation of Policy Rate Feedback Rules](/policy-analysis/comprehensive-evaluation-policy-rate-feedback-rules) 

By [Jai Kedia](https://www.cato.org/people/jai-kedia) and [Norbert J. Michel](https://www.cato.org/people/norbert-michel) 

Given the existing framework of centrally managed fiat money, Congress can greatly improve monetary policy by requiring the central bank to follow a policy rule.

[![Crushing Capitalism: How Populist Policies Are Threatening The American Dream book cover](/sites/cato.org/files/styles/content_teaser/public/2025-06/Crushing%20Capitalism.png?itok=4vXCdYPT)](https://www.cato.org/books/crushing-capitalism) 

books 

### [*Crushing Capitalism*](/books/crushing-capitalism) 

By [Norbert J. Michel](https://www.cato.org/people/norbert-michel) 

Find out why redirecting the free market to suit the whims of politicians poses a serious threat to the American Dream.

[![Racing drivers driving open-wheel single-seater racing car cars on racing track.](/sites/cato.org/files/styles/content_teaser/public/2025-05/GettyImages-1282139219.jpg?itok=HBZfx_Je)](https://www.cato.org/blog/medicaid-driving-deficits-republicans-are-scarcely-tapping-brakes) 

blog 

### [Medicaid Is Driving Deficits: Republicans Are Scarcely Tapping the Brakes](/blog/medicaid-driving-deficits-republicans-are-scarcely-tapping-brakes) 

By [Dominik Lett](https://www.cato.org/people/dominik-lett) 

The High Cost of Half-Measures

[![Capital Building with money](/sites/cato.org/files/styles/content_teaser/public/2024-03/GettyImages-922901040.jpg?itok=pbj4zVH8)](https://www.cato.org/news-releases/senate-bill-could-increase-debt-6-trillion-cato-analysis) 

News Releases 

### [Senate Bill Could Increase Debt by $6 Trillion — Cato Analysis](/news-releases/senate-bill-could-increase-debt-6-trillion-cato-analysis) 

The House must hold the line, reject the Senate’s blunder, and advance a more fiscally responsible package, because pro-growth tax policy must go hand-in-hand with fiscal responsibility.

[![Creative Commons License](/build/cato_2020/images/creative-commons.svg)](http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/4.0/) 
This work is licensed under a [Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 4.0 International License](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/4.0/). 

##### Featuring 

[![Norbert Michel Cropped](/sites/cato.org/files/styles/author_picture/public/2025-01/norbert-m-cropped.jpg?itok=8WIx97Dk)](/people/norbert-michel) 

##### [Norbert J. Michel](/people/norbert-michel)

Vice President and Director, Center for Monetary and Financial Alternatives, Cato Institute

[ 

](https://x.com/norbertjmichel) 

[![Dominik Lee cropped](/sites/cato.org/files/styles/author_picture/public/2025-03/dominik-lett%20Cropped.jpg?itok=45gTbBqN)](/people/dominik-lett) 

##### [Dominik Lett](/people/dominik-lett)

Former Policy Analyst, Cato Institute