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Cato Weekly Podcast • October 2, 2025 

# Shutdowns and Shadow Dockets 

The federal government shuts down as the Supreme Court returns. Our panel looks at the Trump team’s plan to use the shutdown for mass layoffs —and previews a new Supreme Court term packed with big fights over tariffs, emergency powers, and the future of “independent” agencies.

##### Show Notes 

[![Congress covered in yellow tapes labeled "shutdown"](/sites/cato.org/files/styles/content_teaser/public/2025-10/GettyImages-1097423698.jpg?itok=VjI6fePB)](https://www.cato.org/blog/thoughts-about-government-shutdown-1) 

blog 

### [Thoughts About the Government Shutdown](/blog/thoughts-about-government-shutdown-1) 

By [Romina Boccia](https://www.cato.org/people/romina-boccia) 

Shutdowns rarely deliver what their instigators demand. They hand the President and OMB extra discretion—hardly a smart move for Democrats. More often, shutdowns backfire politically without lasting policy change.

[![The Capitol in Washington DC (USA)](/sites/cato.org/files/styles/content_teaser/public/2025-10/GettyImages-173021232_0.jpg?itok=0Bihgq9f)](https://www.cato.org/commentary/some-libertarians-cheer-when-government-shuts-down-heres-why-they-shouldnt) 

Commentary 

### [Some Libertarians Cheer When the Government Shuts Down. Here’s Why They Shouldn’t.](/commentary/some-libertarians-cheer-when-government-shuts-down-heres-why-they-shouldnt) 

By [Jeffrey Miron](https://www.cato.org/people/jeffrey-miron) 

Shutdowns distract from the serious conversations that need to be had about fiscal reform and the size of government. 

[![Government Spending](/sites/cato.org/files/styles/content_teaser/public/2024-12/government-spending%20Cropped.jpg?itok=HkW5WNLc)](https://www.cato.org/blog/libertarian-experiment-isnt) 

blog 

### [The Libertarian Experiment That Isn’t](/blog/libertarian-experiment-isnt) 

By [Ryan Bourne](https://www.cato.org/people/ryan-bourne) 

Paul Krugman thinks the current shutdown could be a big libertarian policy experiment. No, temporary chaos is really not what libertarians want.

[![tarrifs and trade](/sites/cato.org/files/styles/content_teaser/public/2025-04/GettyImages-2199061844.jpg?itok=YTtK17GO)](https://www.cato.org/legal-briefs/learning-resources-v-trump) 

Legal Briefs 

### [*Learning Resources v. Trump*](/legal-briefs/learning-resources-v-trump) 

By [Thomas A. Berry](https://www.cato.org/people/thomas-berry), [Brent Skorup](https://www.cato.org/people/brent-skorup), and [Charles Brandt](https://www.cato.org/people/charles-brandt) 

The new tariffs have imposed large costs on many owners of American businesses.

##### Featuring 

[![Ryan Bourne](/sites/cato.org/files/styles/author_picture/public/2021-01/Ryan%20Bourne.jpg?itok=nv8-2r7d)](/people/ryan-bourne) 

##### [Ryan Bourne](/people/ryan-bourne)

R. Evan Scharf Chair for the Public Understanding of Economics, Cato Institute

[ 

](https://x.com/MrRBourne) [ 

](mailto:rbourne@cato.org) 

[![Gene Healy](/sites/cato.org/files/styles/author_picture/public/2021-01/Gene%20Healy.jpg?itok=EhkBZWC4)](/people/gene-healy) 

##### [Gene Healy](/people/gene-healy)

Former Senior Vice President for Policy, Cato Institute

[![Thomas Berry](/sites/cato.org/files/styles/author_picture/public/2026-02/2025-10-16-Thomas%20Berry-sq_0.jpg?itok=SW7WagUw)](/people/thomas-berry) 

##### [Thomas A. Berry](/people/thomas-berry)

Director, Robert A. Levy Center for Constitutional Studies, Cato Institute

[ 

](https://x.com/Thomas_A_Berry) [ 

](mailto:tberry@cato.org) 

[![j-mironcropped.jpg](/sites/cato.org/files/styles/author_picture/public/2021-04/j-mironcropped.jpg?itok=dkHQXJBB)](/people/jeffrey-miron) 

##### [Jeffrey Miron](/people/jeffrey-miron)

Director, Graduate and Undergraduate Studies, Department of Economics at Harvard University

[ 

](https://x.com/jeffreyamiron) [ 

](mailto:jmiron@cato.org)