# Multimedia Multimedia --- - [Podcasts](/podcasts) - [Cato Video](/multimedia/cato-video) - [Video Series](/search/category/video-series) - [Events](/multimedia/events) [ Download Episode ](https://feeds.acast.com/public/streams/5e28e0d8963f166217546493/episodes/686e93278d3d6839f40ed005.mp3)Subscribe: [ Apple Podcasts ](http://itunes.apple.com/podcast/cato-daily-podcast/id158961219) [ Spotify ](https://open.spotify.com/show/4dHRhKEljj8zcLdl3Gvsv7) Cato Weekly Podcast • July 10, 2025 # The Rise and Fall of DOGE 1.0 In this episode, Alex Nowrasteh and Ryan Bourne delve into the intriguing journey of Doge 1.0 under Donald Trump’s administration. From Elon Musk’s ambitious overhaul to the eventual departure of key figures, they explore the chaotic, amusing, and concerning facets of this government efficiency experiment. With insights into the economic impacts, legislative hurdles, and potential future in Doge 2.0, this discussion sheds light on the complexities of attempting a bureaucratic revolution. Join Alex and Ryan as they dissect the promises, failures, and hopes of a libertarian downsizing dream. #### Show Notes [![Cutting Red Tape](/sites/cato.org/files/styles/content_teaser/public/2024-12/cutting-red-tape%20Cropped.jpg?itok=qMthtHqq)](https://www.cato.org/white-paper/cato-institute-report-department-government-efficiency-doge) Study ### [Cato Institute Report to the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE)](/white-paper/cato-institute-report-department-government-efficiency-doge) By [Alex Nowrasteh](https://www.cato.org/people/alex-nowrasteh) and [Ryan Bourne](https://www.cato.org/people/ryan-bourne) The only route to more efficient government is radically shrinking its role. [![Government Spending](/sites/cato.org/files/styles/content_teaser/public/2024-12/government-spending%20Cropped.jpg?itok=HkW5WNLc)](https://www.cato.org/commentary/small-government-conservatives-should-give-doge-chance) Commentary ### [Small-Government Conservatives Should Give DOGE a Chance](/commentary/small-government-conservatives-should-give-doge-chance) By [Ryan Bourne](https://www.cato.org/people/ryan-bourne) and [Alex Nowrasteh](https://www.cato.org/people/alex-nowrasteh) DOGE’s underlying mission is vast, thorny, and controversial. Still, if Bernie Sanders and Ro Khanna can spot a narrow window of opportunity here, small-government stalwarts could surely feed in productive ideas to give it the best chance of success. [![washington-dc.jpg](/sites/cato.org/files/styles/content_teaser/public/2021-06/washington-dc.jpg?itok=svpFGHR7)](https://www.cato.org/commentary/doge-cant-just-trim-waste-it-has-cut-government-lot) Commentary ### [DOGE Can’t Just Trim Waste. It Has to Cut Government — A Lot](/commentary/doge-cant-just-trim-waste-it-has-cut-government-lot) By [Ryan Bourne](https://www.cato.org/people/ryan-bourne) and [Alex Nowrasteh](https://www.cato.org/people/alex-nowrasteh) To make bureaucracy more efficient, Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy need to eliminate huge parts of it. [![white-house.jpg](/sites/cato.org/files/styles/content_teaser/public/2021-03/white-house.jpg?itok=K0PHFnw9)](https://www.cato.org/commentary/doge-efficiency-requires-elimination) Commentary ### [DOGE: Efficiency Requires Elimination](/commentary/doge-efficiency-requires-elimination) By [Ryan Bourne](https://www.cato.org/people/ryan-bourne) Fail to “eliminate” many of the non-essential programs or goals and you’ll end up with a host of inefficiency baked in, not least because the federal government currently has so many competing aims. [![doge](/sites/cato.org/files/styles/content_teaser/public/2025-03/DOGE%201.jpg?itok=BoMAwhn4)](https://www.cato.org/blog/six-ways-understand-doge-predict-its-future-behavior) blog ### [Six Ways to Understand DOGE and Predict Its Future Behavior](/blog/six-ways-understand-doge-predict-its-future-behavior) By [Alex Nowrasteh](https://www.cato.org/people/alex-nowrasteh) and [Ryan Bourne](https://www.cato.org/people/ryan-bourne) Successfully affecting DOGE’s behavior from the outside requires understanding, at least somewhat, its goals and how it functions. This abridged history of its shifting mission doesn’t tell us where DOGE is headed, nor does it explain why it has behaved in the way it has to this point. [![doge, cryptocurrency coins](/sites/cato.org/files/styles/content_teaser/public/2025-03/GettyImages-1357739626.jpg?itok=RNuTZz5A)](https://www.cato.org/commentary/does-doge-show-theres-little-government-waste) Commentary ### [Does DOGE Show That There’s Little Government Waste?](/commentary/does-doge-show-theres-little-government-waste) By [Ryan Bourne](https://www.cato.org/people/ryan-bourne) No. That doesn’t follow. [![Creative Commons License](/build/cato_2020/images/creative-commons.svg)](http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/4.0/) This work is licensed under a [Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 4.0 International License](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/4.0/). ##### Featuring [![nowrasteh_cropped](/sites/cato.org/files/styles/author_picture/public/2026-05/nowrasteh_cropped.jpg?itok=uGYxzEPS)](/people/alex-nowrasteh) ##### [Alex Nowrasteh](/people/alex-nowrasteh) Senior Vice President for Policy, Cato Institute [ ](https://x.com/AlexNowrasteh) [ ](mailto:anowrasteh@cato.org) [![Ryan Bourne](/sites/cato.org/files/styles/author_picture/public/2021-01/Ryan%20Bourne.jpg?itok=nv8-2r7d)](/people/ryan-bourne) ##### [Ryan Bourne](/people/ryan-bourne) R. Evan Scharf Chair for the Public Understanding of Economics, Cato Institute [ ](https://x.com/MrRBourne) [ ](mailto:rbourne@cato.org)