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Cato Weekly Podcast • July 22, 2025 

# Cato Cage Match: Education vs. Health Care 

Michael F. Cannon and Neal McCluskey let us listen in on their ongoing 20-year debate over who has the more difficult job — fixing health care or education. McCluskey argues that government’s monopolistic control over K‑12 education and compulsory schooling creates a more fundamental threat to freedom, while Cannon contends that health care is even more dysfunctional due to cascading government interventions that have created the world’s most expensive and gap-ridden health system. Both scholars explore how government subsidies drive up costs in their respective sectors and outline their visions for more libertarian, market-based alternatives.

##### Show Notes 

[![Free Society - Stack of Books (List Image)](/sites/cato.org/files/styles/content_teaser/public/2025-06/free-society-stack-of-books-Cropped%20copy.jpg?itok=-Z7Eepzj)](https://www.cato.org/free-society/summer-2025/federal-failure-parental-freedom-story-movement) 

Free Society 

### [From Federal Failure to Parental Freedom: The Story of a Movement](/free-society/summer-2025/federal-failure-parental-freedom-story-movement) 

By [Neal McCluskey](https://www.cato.org/people/neal-mccluskey) 

This is what Cato has long been fighting for: an education system that enables innovative options to be born and taken to scale because funding follows kids to schools their families choose, not only to public schools to which children are assigned based on their home addresses.

[![school 1 regina](/sites/cato.org/files/styles/content_teaser/public/2024-09/school%201.jpeg?itok=OYNMBs80)](https://www.cato.org/blog/supreme-court-right-reading-opt-outs-thats-not-enough) 

blog 

### [The Supreme Court Is Right on Reading Opt-Outs, But That’s Not Enough](/blog/supreme-court-right-reading-opt-outs-thats-not-enough) 

By [Neal McCluskey](https://www.cato.org/people/neal-mccluskey) 

School choice avoids that penalty, and does so not just for religion. It allows anyone to choose education consistent with their values, whatever those might be. That is most consistent with freedom and equality under the law.

[![Department of Education](/sites/cato.org/files/styles/content_teaser/public/2025-02/education%20department%20.jpg?itok=UWBxAhE5)](https://www.cato.org/blog/top-5-reasons-end-us-department-education) 

blog 

### [Top 5 Reasons to End the US Department of Education](/blog/top-5-reasons-end-us-department-education) 

By [Neal McCluskey](https://www.cato.org/people/neal-mccluskey) 

The US Department of Education is in the Trump administration’s crosshairs. Here are five major reasons it should be.

[![Creative Commons License](/build/cato_2020/images/creative-commons.svg)](http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/4.0/) 
This work is licensed under a [Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 4.0 International License](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/4.0/). 

##### Featuring 

[![Neal McCluskey Cropped](/sites/cato.org/files/styles/author_picture/public/2023-11/mccluskey-cropped.jpg?itok=I-QI0yJD)](/people/neal-mccluskey) 

##### [Neal McCluskey](/people/neal-mccluskey)

Former Director, Center for Educational Freedom, Cato Institute

[![Michael F. Cannon](/sites/cato.org/files/styles/author_picture/public/2021-01/Michael%20Cannon.jpg?itok=0UROn8Dc)](/people/michael-f-cannon) 

##### [Michael F. Cannon](/people/michael-f-cannon)

Director of Health Policy Studies, Cato Institute

[ 

](https://x.com/mfcannon) [ 

](mailto:mcannon@cato.org)